Pentium Iii

Pentium Iii

What upgrades are available for a Pentium III processor without having to replace the mobo?

I currently have a Pentium III 800 MHz processor with a FBS of 133 MHz (Socket 370). What are my options for upgrading it without having to replace the motherboard?
Yeah, I did already post this question but someone asked me to repost it so that he could tell me some more information.

Ok,,
There's 2 types of Socket 370 boards.

FCPGA and FCPGA-2

Yours is FCPGA

The simplest,cheapest Direct Plug-in & Go CPU is
a Coppermine-Core Celeron 1100

$18
Celeron 1.1GHz 100MHz 128K FCPGA

http://www.starmicro.net/detail.aspx?ID=33

................................................................................
Next is a Coppermine-Core Pentium 3

$19
PIII 1GHz 133MHz FSB 256K FCPGA Socket 370

http://www.starmicro.net/detail.aspx?ID=95

Neither of those overclock worth a phooey.
You cant expect much gain from trying to overclock 'em.

The P-3 is the obvious choice because of the larger Cache & faster FSB speed/133.
Even though it's 100mhz Slower CPU speed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Here's what's interesting.

The Next generation was Tualatin Core processors.

They were Socket 370's,,,but a Modified Version>>FCPGA-2

They will NOT directly work in older FCPGA boards.

But,,there is an Adaptor /Convertor available for about $15 that allows Tualatins to run on "old" FCPGA socket 370's.

There's also a physical MOD that can be done,,,to let them work Directly.
It's TRICKY,TEDIOUS,RISKY.
Well within the ability of Lots of people,,
But I dont reccomend it.
Adapators are too cheap to risk a chip,,ya know?

The Only reason I mention the MODIFICATION,,,is to point out that
*It's Possible
*It Does work
*Lottsa "enthusiasts" worked on it,figured it out,,and had success back in the day.

Only reason I point it out,,,,is cuz it demonstrates that it's FOR REAL,,,not some bulls****** Computer Tweak Myth.
It also supports the idea of the Adapter working to use NEW CPU's on older Boards.

................................
Here's what ya can get in FCPGA-2 Tualatin core CPU's.
(keep in mind,,ya gotta use the $15 Adapter)

Pentium® III 1.4GHz Socket 370 512K Cache Server CPU
Price: $44.00

http://www.starmicro.net/detail.aspx?ID=464

That's 1400Mhz CPU,,133 FSB,,Big Cache,and Server Instruction Set,,,
and is the Final Development of Socket 370 CPU's.
"The Ultimate Socket 370 CPU"

It dont overclock much at all either,,,
but still a large boost over a Coppermine P-3 800mhz Cpu

Here's a cheaper 1.26 P-3 at same place
Pentium III Tualatin 1.26GHz 512K 133MHz L2 Server CPU OEM
Price: $27.00

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Then,,,,there's a CELERON FCPGA-2

They are Tualatin Core Celerons.
What they ACTUALLY are is,,,"De-Tuned Pentium 3's" with Smaller Cache.
And they Run at 100 Mhz FSB,,instead of the P-3's 133mhz

It's a Pentium 3,,just has some of the L2 Cache Disabled.

They are available up to 1400Mhz.

Did you catch the Part about,???
P-3 133fsb 1400mhz
and
Celeron 100fsb 1400mhz

See how the CPU speed is same?
And Both are actually Pentiums?
But the FSB Speeds are Different? 1 is fast,,1 is Slow??

Ok,,CPU Speed is determined by a simple "formula":
CPU has a "Clock Multiplier" internally.
Formula is:
Multiplier X FSB= CPU Speed

The Pentium is a 10.5X Multi-
10.5 x 133fsb= 1400Mhz CPU (1396.5mhz,,exactly)

The Celeron is 14X Multiplier
14 x 10= 1400Mhz CPU

All those CPU's are Hard-Locked Multiplier----
"Overclocking" includes Raising the Multiplier,,if possible,,,to speed-up the CPU.

Multi- CANNOT be Raised,,Intel Locks them solid.

But,,,if the CPU's are actually the SAME,,,just fiddled with by Intel when Mfgr'd.....
One is set to Run at 100FSB,,
Other is set to run at 133FSB.....

Did INTEL THEMSELVES raise that Multiplier from 10.5 to 14,,,and THEN Hard Lock it?
Yes,,thats exactly what they did.

So,,since they are SAME CHIP,,,but by some quirk one has a Higher Multiplier,,,
What Happens when 100FSB 14X Multi- CPU is plugged into a 133FSB?

Use same Formula,,Mutliplier x FSB
Celeron "Semi-Pentium" 14X x 133fsb== 1862Mhz CPU

Sounds Unreal ,,huh?
It's Not.

Worst Case,,,You'd have to set it at Default 100FSB and run 1400Mhz ,,and still a much more advanced CPU than a coppermine.
That's the WORST.
If your board has ANY fsb adjustments,,,you could go UP from 100fsb/1400mhz CPU.
Each 10mhz FSB =140 CPU Mhz

Your Board,Your RAM,the Tualatin Celeron all can handle 133mhz,,,,so if ADJUSTMENT is available,,,then it IS overclockable.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Here's some Links to general info

http://www.cpudatabase.com/index.cfm?action=search

"Celeron Tualatin 1300 FCPGA2 Results....

Total Entries in Database for Celeron Tualatin 1300 FCPGA2 - 7
Average overclocked speed - 1627 Mhz "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's an article that Overclocks a Tualatin-Celeron 1000 to 1500Mhz.
Important to note,,It's a 100fsb CPU--
so to Run at 1,000 it Must have a 10X Multiplier,right?

Multipliers are Hard Locked on all these chips.
Cannot be increased.

To get to 1500Mhz with a 10X Multiplier,,,
means the FSB had to be 150Mhz
10X 150=1500

Which is exactly how these guys OC'd the 1000 to 1500Mhz..
they cranked up FSB to 150mhz.

That's BEYOND the standard 133FSB of the Tualatin Chip.
Which supports the Idea that a 1400 Celeron will run at 133 FSB.
Make Sense??

X-Bit is a Reputable source----realize they used Premium Parts to get it to run at 150 FSB.

But the GREATER Point is,,,a "100Mhz Celeron is actually a 133fsb Pentium 3"

It Should plug into to any 133fsb and run fine,,even though the Celeron is only 100Mhz "officially"

Their 1st additional 33mhz "overclock" Above the Cel's 100FSB was a Freebie,,a Gimme,,,,--a Natural capability of the Tualatin Core.

The Only amount they Actually "Overclocked" to reach 150FSB,,,
was the 17Mhz above 133Mhz.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/celeron1a-oc.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
About the FCPGA-2 Adapter:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2002/09/24/new_processors_on_old_boards/index.html

http://www.upgradeware.com/english/product/370gu/370gu.htm

Here's a good side by side Pic of FCPGA & FCPGA-2,,,and other info

http://www.tomshardware.com/2001/09/19/last_passing_maneuver/index.html

Here's an article about MODIFYING a CPU/motherboard to convert to FCPGA-2,,,,without an adapter.
This type of work is EXTREMELY TEDIOUS and Delicate.
Maybe You're capable,,or have a friend who is??
I'm NOT recommending this,,,just posting info.

http://wind.prohosting.com/jarmop/Tualatin/Tualatin.htm

http://digilander.iol.it/grandecigno/Tua_BX_41.htm

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If ya Gotta install the T-Celeron at 100fsb,,,,
every 10mhz on the FSB = 140 CPU Mhz(on the Celeron 1400).
Because the chip has that "huge" 14X multiplier.
And it IS actually a "133mhz Chip"..Unofficially.

At 100fsb= 1400 CPU
at 110fsb= 1540 CPU
at 120fsb= 1680 CPU
at 130fsb= 1820 cpu
etc,etc,etc

Whether or not you CAN OC from the 100mhz Board/Bios Settings,,,who knows?
(If you find that you CAN OC your rig,,,,spend $10~15 for a Good,Big Fan & Heatsink for the CPU IMMEDIATELY!)

But that particular CPU will NOT be the Limiting factor.

In Your situation,,,You would not be trying to OC the thing in the purest/performance sense.

But more like trying to get it UP from 100fsb,,,and more towards it's design capability of 133fsb
More like "Set-Up" than actually "OverClock"

Even if it's only stable a FEW Mhz over 100fsb,,,thats a good gain in CPU speed.
No Gaurantees it will,,,but Only the T-Celerons give you any Chance of going beyond 100fsb.

It PROBABLY will run fine at 133fsb

Here's an old "OC Software",,,I havent used it in YEARS.
Used to work pretty good.
It Just MIGHT work.....but by today's standards it's 'obsolete".
The Original Author hasn't supported or updated it for a few years.
There's still various Info around the net about it,,
it used to be very popular.

Download:

http://www.majorgeeks.com/download434.html

Some Info about it:

http://www.plasma-online.de/index.html?content=http%3A//www.plasma-online.de/english/upgrade/tweak/overclock/oc_soft_fsb_docu.html

I 'spose you can also look around the Net for
"Overclock Software",,"CPU overclock software",,"FSB + Overclock + software",,,or anything along those lines.
I have no idea what's available,,I havent messed with that stuff in a long time

Obviously,,Check in Your PC's Bios setup,,,and see it there's any FSB frequency adjustment.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Here's a source for Tualatin -Celerons of various speeds.
Note the Differences between Coppermines & Tualatins.

Tualatins have the big heat spreader covering the chip
They are FCPGA-2

http://www.starmicro.net/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=32&WebID=17fc4364-6872-4f1d-a306-fd7360d2de3c

Celeron 1.1GHz 100MHz 128K FCPGA CPU OEM
Price: $18.00

Celeron 1.1GHz 256K 100MHz FCPGA2 CPU OEM
Price: $24.00

Celeron 1.3GHz 256K 100MHz FCPGA2 CPU OEM
Price: $24.00

Celeron 1.4GHz 256K 100MHz FCPGA2 CPU OEM
Price: $32.00

Keep in mind,,
ALL THOSE REQUIRE THE 15$ FCPGA-2 ADAPTER
...........................................................................................

ADAPTORS on Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/370-CPU-Celeron-3-Converter-Socket-for-Tualatin_W0QQitemZ290066504774QQihZ019QQcategoryZ16180QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/370-CPU-Celeron-3-Converter-Socket-for-Tualatin_W0QQitemZ160066703620QQihZ006QQcategoryZ16180QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

............................................................................

Here's a 1300 with a fan on Ebay,,bidding starts about $21
Just for example

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330067748694&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX_Stores&refitem=260070644389&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bottom line,,you can go 1,000mhz~1100mhz with old FCPGA for about $20.
Thats a decent boost for the money,,,but really not much in an overall sense

For $40~50,
you can use the adapter,,,and go at least 1400Mhz,,,and thats also a more advanced/higher perf CPU.
And Probably be able to "overclock" the Tualatin-Celeron a good bit,,,and it IS actually sorta a "semi-pentium".

going from 800 to 1400 would be a worthwile boost.

You and I both know....
*Ya Cant make a Super Computer outa it
*Cant make a Killer Gaming Rig
*Can't get even Close to "Latest Greatest Technology"

But ya CAN get a Useful and Noticeable gain in performance,,,for a reasonable amont of $$$

Always a Tuff Call when upgrading anything more than a couple years old.
It comes down to what a person Needs and Expects,,,and what's Cost Effective.

If Your PC is doing OK for you,,,and ya Dont Need a Killer Machine,,,,and dont want to spend $300~400+++>>> To get a NEW Computer,,,,
It makes sense to spend a FEW $$$ ,,,IF you can get a Worthwhile Gain

Example:
Difference between 800Mhz and 900Mhz,,,not worth a Dime.
Pointless,,in my opinion.

800 to 1000 or 1100,,,thats probably worth the $20 it would cost.
It adds 25~30% Processing Speed,,,,which Also raises Memory Performance And Graphics Perf a bit too.
NOTHING HUGE,,but worthwhile

$40~50 to go to 1400+??
Thats a Big Jump in power compared to what it is now.
And it's about the Limit of your PC.

Spending OVER $50~75???
You MIGHT be able to add a better Vid Card---depending on what ya HAVE and what ya can find Cheap.
Or Max Out RAM size,,,,if ya can find some Cheap.
And that MIGHT hold you a while.

Beyond $50~75 MAX worth of Upgrades starts getting into "NOT WORTH IT" territory

If ya HAD a $100 to spend,,,,You'd come out WAY ahead to do a more Major Upgrade to a "less old" motherboard/cpu.

$100~150,,,with some hard shopping and a little luck,,,You could "Catch Up" a Huge amount on the Technology calendar.

I know ya DONT have $$$ coming out your ears.
And I'm talking in terms of $25 and $50 jumps like thats nothing.
I trying to make a point though,,,that it Really IS

A Cost -Effective Upgrade is Fine,,even on computers Way More obsolete than Yours.

Not Everybody NEEDS a computer fast enough to ride,,LOL.

But even so,,,You gotta Look Ahead,,consider what you'll end up with,,,and Draw a Line somewhere,,a Limit.

It's easy to do a $50 upgrade Now,,,
and in a couple months find a Great Deal on Vid Card for $20~30.
Then a Bunch of ram for $20~30....
and $15 for a Great Upgrade on a powersupply..
Then a 7200 Rpm Hard Drive for $20~30.

Ya Wake up and realize you've spent $150 or more,
another Year has passed,,
Your PC is MAXED OUT,,,And No More Upgrade possible.
and REALLY OUTDATED a year later.

Then ya see Good Late Model PC,, or Parts for 150~200,,,that'll just blow away your old one.
Plus being a few generations Newer,,,it still has some upgrade potential to last you into the future.

And you'll wonder,,"Why didnt I save my $$$ and wait 6 months??"

I'll give ya One guess about,, How I Know That
But ya could Never guess how many times I learned that same lesson...lol.

I see people with Older PC's get bashed,insulted,,etc,,,so many times when they ask about Upgrading their "obsolete PC".

Well,,,they dont Need a $3000 Gaming Rig.

Goofy as it seems to the PC Snobs,,,a cheap upgrade is Ideal for Lottsa people..

But,,,ya gotta draw a line somewhere.
And THAT's the tuff part.

If you had asked same question NEXT year,,,answer woulda been,,,Dont Fool with Socket 370 anymore.

Because More Advanced stuff will have fallen in price enough to where You could probably get a Board/CPU/Fan/Ram,, 2Ghz or better for $100 or Less.

Right now,,,ya Cant really take a very large leap ahead for less than a $100......mostly cuz You'd have to buy New RAM.

And there's not many setups that will beat
what you can still get outa your P-3 for $50 or less.

A FEW $$$ spent can give you a good boost in speed,,,and last you Long enough to get your money's worth.

But dont spend too much,,,cuz it just kinda falls off a cliff in terms of Value.
And you're better off saving the extra $$ to evenetually spend on a whole better setup.
...............................
Anyway,,,

The stuff about the Hardware,,is all pretty much Facts.
You can check all that out yourself.

The Sermon about spending your money,,,,LOL,,Not trying to tell you what to do or whatever.

Just that I been thru Same thing several times Myself,,,& with Friends,Family,Neighbors,,etc.
There's so much Marketting Hype,,and PC stuff advances soo fast & far,,,it gets Tuff to know What is worth doing,,and When.

So take it all as just something to think about.

Good Luck!
& have a Great New Year!

***Watch Ebay,,,especially after Christmas
People get new PC's and dump Old Stuff.
You can find CPU's ,etc that Nobody Bids on,,,and can snag them cheap just before the auction closes.

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